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> CreeDo's A. Sate Guide, From CreeDo's site
hellic
post Jan 14 2007, 11:20 PM
Post #1


Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
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Quick and useful info for sate.


Shot 1 -

Delay: 730
Damage: ~150

Low delay: You can beat any other player's shot 1 if you shoot
after them and don't spend as much time aiming as they did.

Angle fuxing: The shot makes a big round hole if it hits land.
If the enemy is in a slope and you're close to them, plant
shot 1 at their feet and it may ruin their angle.

Bunge: If you need to bunge an enemy on a small bit of land, shot 1
eats more dirt than shot 2 and is more likely to drop them down.

Misses can hit: If a shot lands past them but they're in the line
of fire between you and the tracer, they still can get hit.

Shot 2 -

Delay: 880
Damage: ~250

Low delay: As shot 2's go, this is fast. If you have a small delay
advantage and someone uses shot 2, you can use your own shot 2 and
then beat their delay... even vs. boomer's low delay.

High damage: A clean hit can go up to 300 vs organic bots, who
are weak to Sate (so Sate rapes boomer). An average hit is 240, as
strong as many other popular bots like Armor and Boomer. Even a
sloppy hit that misses a bit can be 150-200.

Angle fuxing: Shooting from right to left, your shot 2 can make a
vertical pit and put the enemy into it. They may be forced to shoot
through dirt afterwards.

SS -

Delay: 1280
Damage: ~450

Low delay: Good delay for an SS, if the enemy tries any SS you just
SS back, but take less time to aim, and your delay wins. Naturally
the SS delay is better than any dual's delay.

High damage: One of the most damaging SSes in the game, 400 vs
almost anyone for a solid hit, 450-500 for a very good hit vs
low defense bots and organics. Even turtle can take over 400
from it.

Giant pit: Not a big advantage but fun and sometimes useful. The
SS makes a deep vertical hole. If you're lucky the enemy will end up
in that hole. If a cake is on your team (or is your tag) you can
suck an enemy into the hole and leave them with no angle or even
bunged (on thin maps like adiumroot).

Easy to use: You still neet a fairly precise hit, but you don't need
to concentrate as hard with the SS as you do when using the other
shots. The SS's vertical firing pattern means you can land the tracer
on any part of the enemy and still do some damage, and the SS can be
shotgunned when from right to left, unlike most other damaging SSes. It
also doesn't have the strange hurricane properties of shot 1 or 2.
If you can land the SS's tracer on the enemy when shooting through
a hurricane, you can usually get full damage from it. That's much
harder to do with shot 2.

Disadvantages:

Shot 1:

- Useless if the enemy is far away and has land in front of them, the
land blocks the shot 1's laser, which fires at a low flat angle.

- Does not dig through land, is easily blocked by a pixel in front
of you or in front of the enemy. A near miss does no damage also.

Shot 2:

- Quirky aiming means you must adapt your shot based on enemy's
distance and your position (whether you're to their left or right).
It's easy to miss half the lasers even when your tracer lands directly
on the enemy.

- At long range, your laser spread is so wide that half your shot will
miss no matter how perfectly you place the shot. This limits long
range damage potential if there's no weather effect or SS to help you.

- Cannot always be shotgunned or easily aimed like direct hit shots.

- Like shot 1, also has trouble with enemies who are far away and
have some dirt in front of them. Your lasers come at the enemy at
about 45 degrees no matter what angle you used to shoot your tracer.
An enemy in a deep pit or with a wall of dirt in front can't be hit.

- Often gets no benefit from force, and sometimes very little help
from thor. Hurricane completely screws you over by making the shot
twice as hard as any other mobile's hurricane shot. Lightning gives
a nice damage bonus, but sometimes the first round of lasers and
lightning bunges so much that a second shot from a dual will miss.

SS:

- No real disadvantage unless you're inside a hurricane and shoot
a close enemy. The SS then tries to pass through the nado and some
of it will usually miss.


Deeper info:

-Difference between shooting left and shooting right:

Sate's Shot 2 lasers always rain down from left to right.
This can affect how close the lasers come to the enemy's core
and where you want to aim to get maximum damage.

If Sate is on the left: Aim to place the tracer in the center of
the enemy's body or, ideally, a tiny bit behind their center.
You don't want to land the shot at their feet or try to shotgun.
Shots that hit this way often do very low damage. Even an SS that
is shotgunned at full power into the front of the enemy mobile will
do less than half the usual damage.

If Sate is on the right: Aim to place the tracer a bit in front
of the enemy, like right at their feet. Because hitting their front
is ideal, you can shotgun from right to left. Therefore whenever I
am on the right side of the enemy, I try to do full power shotguns
with shot 2 or otherwise fire with a very low angle (like 20). This
gives lots of room for error on your shot's power control and makes
nailing full 250+ damage quite easy. Being on the right owns if
you're Sate.

-Angle ruining: If you're close to the enemy and you see them in
a vulnerable position (like they're using a steep hill to get
angle) you can use shot 1 to ruin their angle. An even cooler trick
is this: if you're on the right side, plant a shot 2 a bit in front of
their feet, like half a mobile width. The shot will mostly miss,
but the lasers will make a perfect vertical narrow hole and the
enemy will take a bit of damage and drop into that hole. When
they try to shoot again they will waste a turn shooting through a
bit of dirt. Even when an enemy is already in a narrow hole
like this, it's possible to land another shot 2 and KEEP them in a
screwed situation with no angle. It's very demoralizing, especially
for those with bad movement or low angles (it's great vs Nak, other
Sate's, and Lightning). This trick can allow a Sate player with
low health to beat an enemy with much more life by just constantly
ruining his angle with carefully placed shot 2's. Remember it's
from the right side only (didn't I say Sate is happy on the right?).
If you're on the left, your shot 2 just sort of 'mows the lawn' by
spraying horizontally across the dirt.

-Far range: Already you know that Sate has to miss intentionally a
little to get great damage from the lasers... that is, on the left
side you want to miss behind them a tiny bit, and on the right you
want to land the shot a tiny bit in front. When shooting far, you
must increase the distance that you 'miss' your enemy by. That is,
a shot from the left side must not only land behind the enemy, it
must miss them totally hit land on the ground behind them. If you're on
the right side, you have to make the shot land quite far in front of them,
... the tracer never comes near them, but the lasers still smack them.

-SS: When firing the SS, a center hit is pretty much always ideal.
What's a little weird is that if you're on the left, you can't
shotgun the SS (as you'd expect). If you're on the right, you CAN,
but be careful. A close range, full power shotgun can sometimes
send the SS tracer halway through their body so that it activates
a bit past their center. Instead of a nice center hit, you get a
crappy half-hit on their back side. So shotgunning the SS at full
power is probably bad on either side. Just shoot with a normal amount
of power while aiming directly at the enemy, and your SS will be OK.
My strategy: Save the SS for difficult situations. Sate's shot 2 has
some weaknesses with long range shots, hurricanes, and shooting
enemies who are hiding behind a wall of dirt. The SS doesn't have
any of these problems. Save it for these situations when
a shot 2 just won't be good enough to do decent damage.
The SS is also great for item lock weather, you can make an important
shot for 400 damage while many of the other bots are stuck doing
250 at most.

-Hurricane: To hit through a hurricane, the tracer must land quit a
bit behind the enemy. Then the lasers wrap around the tornado and
hit an area in front of the tracer's landing place. You must
control your power carefully and have some imagination to make 'nado
shots with Sate. The more vertical the shot is, the closer your
tracer should land to the enemy. E.g. for angle 80 you might want the
tracer to land only 2 or 3 mobile widths behind the enemy. For a
lower angle like 45, you might want to put it 1/4th of a screen or
more behind the enemy. It also depends on the distance between you
and the tornado. Try to imagine the lasers travelling from your
Satellite high in the sky to the ground behind your enemy. If you can
imagine a good nado shot, all you need to do is put the tracer in
the right spot using your best feeling or formulas.
It's a bit easier to hit a tornado shot using your shot 1. You may
want to stick to shot 1 during tornados. One very strong trick is to
fire a test shot with 1, then fire an SS through the 'nado. It looks
pro but it's really easy - if the test shot tracer landed on the
enemy, then an SS with the same angle and power will hit for good dmg.
IMPORTANT: If you're sitting inside a hurricane, be very careful how
close you try to plant your tracer. When shooting from inside a
nado, your shot 2 will rain almost straight down and you can easily
hit yourself.

-Lightning: When there's lightning, it might be a good plan to use
a powerup like duals. Sate gets a good damage bonus from lightning,
better than almost anyone else does. Remember the slight bunge effect
from your first shot when dualling, you might want to land the shot
a little closer to you than usual to make up for the fact that
the enemy will drop after the first hit. In other words, aim to hit
their feet if shooting from the left side, and aim to hit a bit in
front of their feet when shooting from the right side.

-Thor: You can dual like anyone else when thor comes out.

-Force: In order for force to affect your shot, both your tracer AND
the laser must pass through the force. If the tracer passes through
but the laser doesn't, then the damage is just normal. So you don't
want to dual every time you see force, like most others would. The
damage bonus is usually small.

-Dual+: There's a bug with this, it happens often (not always).
If you fire shot 2 first, the shot 2 will hit normally, but the
followup shot 1 will just disappear and do no damage. If you fire
shot 1 first, you will get both attacks and full damage. In general
you always want to use shot 1 first with dual+ because the delay
for the dual+ item is added to whatever shot you use with it.
Doing shot 1 first therefore gets you lower delay as well as
sure damage.

-Dealing with angle fuxing: If you have no angle to shoot the enemy
there are a few ways to deal with it:
Dumb way: Fire shot 2 at the small bit of land blocking your shot.
Then the lasers will blast away the land and also do a decent chunk
of damage to you.
Slightly smarter way: Fire shot 1 at the chunk of land, blowing it
away without hurting yourself.
Smartest way: Put Sate all the way under the small lip of land that's
blocking your shot, then turn around and shoot behind you with either
1 or 2 (depending on how much angle you need). This creates a sure
angle for your next turn, and the land that was blocking your shot
before might also help block the enemy's shot.


Formulas:

I mostly use fixed power shots with Sate. The simplest formula is
like using the armor 2.4 method, but with Sate you will use 2.5 bars.
The exact formula works like this:

1. Measure the distance between you and the enemy. There are 30
'distance units' to 1 screen. So an enemy who is half a screen away
would be 15 distance units away from you. How to tell how far away
they are? The easiest method is to right click and drag your screen
so that you're at the edge of the screen (half on the screen, half
off). If the enemy is positioned directly below the circular wind
marker at the top of the screen, that's a half screen shot. If they're
on the other side of the screen (half on and half off like you) then
that's a 1 screen shot ... so that's 30 distance units.

2. Starting at angle 90, lower your angle by the number of distance
units between you and the enemy. For example, we know that an enemy
half a screen away is 15 units away. So 90-15 = angle 75.

3. Fire at 2.5 bars of power. If you're shooting from right to left,
it can be helpful to reduce power a bit because that's the best
way to get full damage on the enemy and ruin their angle.

Some quick references - if you don't get this formula then just
memorize these 4 simple rules.

- Angle 80, 2.5 bars = 1/3 screen distance.
- Angle 75, 2.5 bars = 1/2 screen distance.
- Angle 70, 2.5 bars = 2/3 screen distance.
- Angle 60, 2.5 bars = 1.0 screen distance.

If an enemy is between these distances, just estimate how to change
your angle as a result, for example if the enemy is about halfway
between 2/3rds screen and 1 screen away... you know 2/3 screen is 70,
and 1 screen is 60, so halfway between them is ... 65. So you'd use
angle 65, 2.5 bars to hit that enemy.

Wind adjustment:

- Raise angle if wind is 'helping' your shot, i.e. blowing up or
towards the enemy to carry the shot further.

- Lower angle if wind is 'hindering' your shot, i.e. blowing down or
against you to hold the shot back.

How much to raise or lower your angle? You can use my windchart:
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Basically you divide the current wind strength by a certain number,
and then raise or lower your angle by the result. The 'certain number'
depends on the wind's direction and I give the math for it above.

Other shooting info:

-At full power
84 = half screen distance
78 = 1 screen distance.

-Angle 8 or so is a 1 screen shotgun, so if you're on the left and
an enemy is even with you and 1 screen away, fire at angle 8 with
full power to hit them. If they're a bit above or below you can just
change your angle a bit. If they're further away, raise your angle
to compensate. Obviously nobody should be in between you
and the enemy and you'll want to only try this from the right side,
where shotgunning works for full damage.

-If you have trouble shotgunning at full power, try a low angle
like 20. With angle 20, the shot flies just high enough to pass over
small hills like the kind you see in metamine or miramo town. At
angle 20, half a screen is 1.6 bars and 1 screen is about 2.4 bars.


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Coin-coin le Canapin
post Feb 28 2007, 05:53 PM
Post #2


Quack-quack the Dubbit
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Nice guide.

I would like to add a short video which shows two examples of giant pits.
You can see it on Youtube : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQdMYC5PGHA

Or here in better quality : http://jolienne.free.fr/Gunbound/asatebunge.avi (2 MB).

Keep up the good work !


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hellic
post Feb 28 2007, 09:36 PM
Post #3


Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
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I can't take any credit :/
It's all Creedo's work.


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Niluje
post Mar 12 2007, 05:21 AM
Post #4


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Very good guide, dude. I've been using A.Sate for a long time and I agree with everything there =]
I just can also add that a full powershot with 79 angle equals a screen (without wind) =]


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CreeDo
post Mar 12 2007, 08:47 AM
Post #5


R U TEH GUY WHO HAS THAT SITE
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...cuz I think it's 78.


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ANBU
post Mar 12 2007, 10:08 AM
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What is love?Love is playing every game like it's your last
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I agree, cuz for sate I usually use 2.5 power for a half screen angle 75 shot D:
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Coin-coin le Canapin
post Mar 12 2007, 10:22 AM
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Quack-quack the Dubbit
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Creedo : That could explain why Niluje still misses his shots since 1878 ! :p


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Niluje
post Mar 12 2007, 04:09 PM
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Boomer raper
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I always hit with 79 full. Coin², I hate you =O


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hellic
post Mar 12 2007, 08:05 PM
Post #9


Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
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A. Sate's zero wind full power angle is definitely 79. You can quote me on that ;D


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Gio
post Mar 12 2007, 08:19 PM
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well, if it is indeed the same weight as raon, it is a 78 :P

but u have to use 79 from one side to another to hit the shot 2 anyway ;P (dont remember each side tho)


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1nsanemofo
post Mar 12 2007, 08:34 PM
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I stand among the voiceless millions
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I'm not arguing UHA, I hate it...But a random piece of info you might want to edit into that bunge video is that its only possible when shooting to the left


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Scala
post Mar 12 2007, 09:41 PM
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It's lighter than raon.


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CreeDo
post Mar 13 2007, 12:16 AM
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R U TEH GUY WHO HAS THAT SITE
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If you wanna get technical, raon and sate's shot are the same weight but sate's moves a hair faster through the air, so it will go a little further. It's a very small difference.

Sate 79 full: 777 pixels
Raon 79 full: 740 pixels

I think you're all right though, my mistake... 777 pixels would work because the width of the bot + the place where the shot comes from means the shot doesn't need to travel 800 full pixels to hit. Also sate needs to hit a bit in front, the more far away they are the more in front he must hit. And on the right side it's even more in front.


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Niluje
post Mar 13 2007, 03:53 AM
Post #14


Boomer raper
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QUOTE(CreeDo @ Mar 13 2007, 12:16 AM) *

Sate 79 full: 777 pixels
Raon 79 full: 740 pixels



Lol :blink:
You really measured it? :blink:


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hellic
post Mar 13 2007, 03:20 PM
Post #15


Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
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Most likely KS Calc.


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