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> Another retarded "feel vs formula" debate.
ProfessorPap
post Nov 3 2007, 03:08 PM
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Take that, you silly ox.
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SPLIT FROM "HOW TO MAKE YOUR OWN WINDCHART" TOPIC:
http://www.gbgl-hq.com/forum/index.php?sho...c=2616&st=0


*sigh*

i guess i'll never really understand why you guys use formulas and wind charts to hit all but the easiest shots. how does it keep the game challenging, or is the only thing you care about winning?

by spreading this information (clever as it is), you'll eventually just force nooby feel players like myself to learn more and more formulas and wind stuff just to stay competitive.

ah... nevermind me. end rant.
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MaShin
post Nov 3 2007, 04:00 PM
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The reason I use formulas is that play more then one bot or quit gb for a while and still be quite at the same level I was when I left.
I don't share my good stuff with anybody I don't understand why to do so.
And winning isn't about hitting all the time too, so it's not like we gonna win if we just keep hitting.. being a pro is basicly strategy and delay play for me, hitting is something you can learn much faster, while the rest is experience.

For me.. few of the best players aren't formula users.

If you choose to learn formulas it is ur decision.. Feel players are faster than formula players.. each has it's own benefits.


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StY
post Nov 3 2007, 04:02 PM
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pap has a good point. its once again down to the classic arguement of formula vs feel.
my opinion on formulas is: those who r willing to learn shud not b rejected. those who r not willing to learn shud not b protected.
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ProfessorPap
post Nov 3 2007, 06:47 PM
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Take that, you silly ox.
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The reason I use formulas is that play more then one bot or quit gb for a while and still be quite at the same level I was when I left.

what's wrong with going through the process of getting your old skill back?


And winning isn't about hitting all the time too, so it's not like we gonna win if we just keep hitting.. being a pro is basicly strategy and delay play for me, hitting is something you can learn much faster, while the rest is experience.

i agree that experience helps, but it doesn't take a genius to learn pretty-quick that DT is a winning strategy and that when there's one kill left everyone shoots for one kill.

meanwhile it's MUCH harder to hit hard shots consistently if you don't have formula / windchart. that stuff could take years and years otherwise. i guess you are grateful that GB allows such shortcuts, eh?


few of the best players aren't formula users.

not really. any top player is going to have at least a basic command of the common formulas. i agree they might use their experience to 'finish' off their shots and wind calc, but they still have formula for a basis, even if it's only developing indexes in their heads for fixed angle landmarks. and for longer shots you know they still look at wind and adjust angle accordingly.


If you choose to learn formulas it is ur decision.. Feel players are faster than formula players.. each has it's own benefits.

feel players aren't necessarily faster. if you're an experienced formula player you can often quickly measure distance, make your wind adjustment and -bam- hit your dragshot all in a very short time. meanwhile a feel slice player probably has to clear their mind, visualise the effect wind will have, visualise the arc of the shot and then go through that slow slice process.

if you're a so-called 'dragshot feel' player who fires quickly then again, you prolly have an internal set of landmark indexes you've built up to help you hit. so you're not exactly a pure feel player anyway.
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Gabe
post Nov 3 2007, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE(ProfessorPap @ Nov 3 2007, 08:47 PM) *

few of the best players aren't formula users.

not really. any top player is going to have at least a basic command of the common formulas. i agree they might use their experience to 'finish' off their shots and wind calc, but they still have formula for a basis, even if it's only developing indexes in their heads for fixed angle landmarks. and for longer shots you know they still look at wind and adjust angle accordingly.


In the end everyone has to use your concept of "common" formulas. If theres against wind you add, lower if tail wind. Luizinho, dragon in gb brasil and ruby in gbna) is 100% feel according to what i just said and hits maybe 95%~ of the time. Although, I agree that MOST top players use formulas as a basis, but not ALL.


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ProfessorPap
post Nov 3 2007, 07:31 PM
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Take that, you silly ox.
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In the end everyone has to use your concept of "common" formulas. If theres against wind you add, lower if tail wind.

no, that's my point. unless you know that wind is going to seriously hose your shot, then as a feel player you just pick an angle and visualise it flying along as you hold down the space bar. you either feel the shot battling against the wind, being neutral, or being carried by the wind. (at least that's how i do it when i'm playing feel-slice)

thus, it might be possible to become very good without reading or using even the common formulas like 20-part, 30-part and landmarks.

heh... i have no idea personally because i have such crappily inconsistent feel.


Luizinho, dragon in gb brasil and ruby in gbna) is 100% feel according to what i just said and hits maybe 95%~ of the time.

but according to what you just said he does indeed make wind calculations and has common formulas as a basis, no? i wouldn't call him a feel player unless he's actually explained exactly his process of hitting.
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MaShin
post Nov 3 2007, 07:47 PM
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About gaining my skills back.. uhm also with formula I have to do that. Speed of calculating and that. uhm I used to be a feel player, at the end its using the fingures to measure and simple wind dividing... i'd rather just use the formulas.

Anyways I don't really mind formula/feel.. I'm gonna use formulas anyways. If you think it's not "pro" enough or something then it's not my problem anymore.


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xDemonessx
post Nov 3 2007, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE(ProfessorPap @ Nov 3 2007, 08:31 PM) *


Luizinho, dragon in gb brasil and ruby in gbna) is 100% feel according to what i just said and hits maybe 95%~ of the time.

but according to what you just said he does indeed make wind calculations and has common formulas as a basis, no? i wouldn't call him a feel player unless he's actually explained exactly his process of hitting.



pick an angle you "feel" will work best in the wind and the target you may be aiming.

pick a power you "feel" will hit the target.

hold down the space bar or right click hold and drag the mouse to desired power.

angles and powers are subject to change using basic bjsl rules and factors.


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ProfessorPap
post Nov 3 2007, 08:00 PM
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Take that, you silly ox.
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mashin, i don't have a problem with you personally nor any formula player personally.

if i wandered into your room i would prolly just leave when i realised i had no chance of matching you hit-for-hit. or if you you were a stranger and came into my room i would prolly ask for the teams to be balanced or kick if you refused. but if i knew you personally and was playing against you i would just try to do my best for a few games and then leave after my ass was sufficiently kicked and i'd had a chance to chat a little.
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Sol
post Nov 3 2007, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE(MaShin @ Nov 3 2007, 07:47 PM) *

About gaining my skills back.. uhm also with formula I have to do that. Speed of calculating and that. uhm I used to be a feel player, at the end its using the fingures to measure and simple wind dividing... i'd rather just use the formulas.

Anyways I don't really mind formula/feel.. I'm gonna use formulas anyways. If you think it's not "pro" enough or something then it's not my problem anymore.


you can easily do your calculations before it's even your turn...
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ZenythFox
post Nov 3 2007, 09:38 PM
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Why does this thread topic keep coming up? It's never gonna be resolved or anyone's mind changed. Forms and feel is like the 'turtle' and 'aggressor' style in fighting games. Why does some use a turtle style? Why does someone use an aggressive style? Just because someone uses an aggressive style does that make him a noob or that it's bad because of how they choose to play? Remember, we're dealing with other people who have different thoughts/mindframes then everyone else. So if they use feel, then they use feel. Someone uses formulas, then they use formulas. It's personal preference and each style has it's own challenges and drawbacks. I don't mean to be an ass or anything with this response so don't flip.


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Sammy
post Nov 3 2007, 10:28 PM
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I think there are a large chunk of GB players out there who barely gave Feel a chance. As soon as they realized there's formulas for this shit, they hopped right on it. I kinda don't really have much respect for those guys, and I honestly think they are a significant portion of the community.
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Sol
post Nov 3 2007, 10:33 PM
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I don't mind people using formulas, but I hate when someone, who is using other peoples formulas, pretends that they made their own forms.
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7slayer7
post Nov 3 2007, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE(Sammy @ Nov 3 2007, 09:28 PM) *

I think there are a large chunk of GB players out there who barely gave Feel a chance. As soon as they realized there's formulas for this shit, they hopped right on it. I kinda don't really have much respect for those guys, and I honestly think they are a significant portion of the active community.


fixed.

and i totally agree


=/

QUOTE(Sol @ Nov 3 2007, 09:33 PM) *

I don't mind people using formulas, but I hate when someone, who is using other peoples formulas, pretends that they made their own forms.


or pretends that it's feel


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MaShin
post Nov 4 2007, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE(Sol @ Nov 3 2007, 08:00 PM) *

you can easily do your calculations before it's even your turn...

Sometimes you have to change target when it's your turn.


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LichKingg
post Nov 4 2007, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE(Sol @ Nov 3 2007, 11:33 PM) *

I don't mind people using formulas, but I hate when someone, who is using other peoples formulas, pretends that they made their own forms.


in all honesty, i don't think most people use their own formulas. I mean what would happen if only the person who invented banpao is allowed to use it? like every turtle player would get screwed.


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mutantllama
post Nov 4 2007, 05:17 PM
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Through out my years of playing I either was 100% feel or 100% aimbot. Lulz.
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StY
post Nov 4 2007, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE(ywd @ Nov 4 2007, 06:02 PM) *

in all honesty, i don't think most people use their own formulas. I mean what would happen if only the person who invented banpao is allowed to use it? like every turtle player would get screwed.


i think the difference here is between a METHOD of shooting, such as bjsl, fixed power, fixed timing, vs an actual specific chart that some1 made.
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polaris
post Nov 4 2007, 07:38 PM
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hmm the only difference i can think of between a good formular and a good feeler is that a formular will be slow if they change targets, while a feeler would be quick, but wouldn't too accurate. eventually if you use feel for a while, you can take shortcuts by memorizing full screen, then 1/2 screen, etc. so that's just becoming efficient.
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GodisaIie
post Nov 4 2007, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE(ZenythFox @ Nov 3 2007, 09:38 PM) *

. Forms and feel is like the 'turtle' and 'aggressor' style in fighting games. Why does some use a turtle style?


This rly explains it all.

Formula users are commonly more aggresive than the laid-back feel-user

im not saying formula users are uptight, though some can be a pain and need to chill, but they usually have a larger desire to win or be sucessful.

like the colleges these days, you have to be the best to be accepted. and the ones who are willing to give it all they've got and learn things to the fullest are the ones who are going to win.

feel-users just wanna be there and have fun, but still want to win and be successful.

therefore when they find out they can only win nowadays when they go the extra mile, they refuse and tell the formula-users to fuck off

but ima feel user too.....i just realized it doesnt matter and now i play 2moons

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