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> CreeDo's Frog Guide, From his site, but I've added some more information
hellic
post Jan 14 2007, 11:39 PM
Post #1


Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
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J. FROG:

Frog is a strategic bot, low damage and somewhat difficult to use, but
great at angle ruining, bunge, and winning delay. Think of it as another
version of JD. The defense, attack, and delay are a bit better than JD's,
but the tradeoff is it's harder to use and the SS sorta sucks.

How the shots work: Frog's shots travel through the air normally (BTW,
they're very very light) then start 'walking' as soon as they hit the
ground, sort of like Raon's SS shot. But they don't explode when they
touch an enemy, instead they keep walking. After walking for about
3 seconds, they explode. Your goal is to time your shot to land
near the enemy, so that after 3 seconds it's inside the enemy when it blows.
When the shot explodes, it makes a pretty nice hole like mage shot 1.
It's very good at ruining angle since the shot can be timed to explode
anywhere in front of their feet or underneath them.
If it explodes right on them, you'll do a bit of damage.. not a ton,
usually 150-210. Important: Frog's shot 1 always walks left when it hits
the floor, and shot 2 always walks right. So if you're facing right and use
shot 1, then it will hit the ground and immediately start moving backwards
(towards you). But if you're facing the other way it strolls forward.
The amount of walking is based on time, not distance. It
always blows up after about 3 seconds of walking. It has unlimited
climbing and can cling to the underside of ledges, so you need to
think of a lot of factors when trying to time the shot. If the enemy has
flat ground in front of or behind them, the timing is easy, but if they
have a hill or (worst of all) a little ledge near them, you must remember
that it moves up and down a bit slower than it moves horizontally.
The SS works differently from 1 and 2, a bit. It just keeps walking
for a long time, and when it passes through the enemy it does damage
(sort of like how grub SS will do damage as it passes through them).
The trick to the SS is to try to hit an enemy on a floating speck of land.
Then the SS will walk in circles around that speck and pass through
the target several times for very high damage. The other trick is
to look for a situation where there are 2 enemies near each other with
low life. Then you can walk the SS through both for a DK.

Shot 1: Walking blob (always walks left after hitting the ground)
Shot 2: Walking blob (always walks right after hitting the ground)
SS: Big walking blob (walks in the direction it's fired)

Typical shot 1 damage: ~150-210
Typical shot 2 damage: ~150-210
Typical SS damage: ~400-500

Strategy: Obviously remember which way shots 1 and 2 walk. Then
try to aim your shot to land a bit behind the enemy or a bit in front
of them depending on which direction you're facing and which shot
you're using. How far you land the shot in front of or behind the enemy
depends on how much climbing the shot has to do. Climbing up or down
slopes means the shot has less horizontal walking to do before it
explodes, so you plant the shot a bit closer to the target. If the
land is pretty flat, I plant the shot about 1/7th of a screen away from
the intented target - about 4 parts out of a 30-part screen. Sometimes
it's very hard to time the shot because of slopes and ledges. Always
try to pick the shot that will result in the easiest timing - if there's
a big slope or overhang in front of the enemy, then aim to land the
shot behind them instead. Basically always aim for the side of the
enemy that has the flattest land. With duals, you want the first shot
to blow up a little late because it will make a hole and 'slow down'
the second shot so that it blows up right in the middle of them.

For the SS, try to look for situations where the enemy is on a speck of
land, and if you're lucky/skilled enough to hit that speck you'll get
great damage. Also look for DK opportunities with it. Otherwise, screw it.
It's nearly useless.

Remember the light weight of the shot, it's lighter even than
boomer's but doesn't move in the same funky way that boomer's shot
does. It's affected by wind normally. Also remember that your delay
is super low, the lowest in the game. I think both shot 1 and 2 have
the same delay or very nearly the same, since they both do the
same damage and are pretty much identical. The delay for frog's shots
is like 670 or something. Look for chances to steal turns. Unfortunately,
when I played frog, some bug showed my delay as always 0. But
I didn't actually have 0 delay. So I can't say for sure what the real
shot delay is, just keep an eye on the turn list and look for chances
to steal turns where other bots can't.

Weather affects the shot when it blows up, not when it lands, so
don't be scared to use force/lightning/thor with frog.

Once your shot 1 or 2 hits the ground, it ignores tornados. It moves
through the nado like all other shots do when it's airborne, but forgets
about the nado once it lands, so if there's a nado in front of the enemy,
you can almost aim the shot normally. It'll start to wrap around the
nado, then walk normally if it hits the ground before exiting the nado.

Be careful in melee situations. If you get your shots backwards you can
send the shot walking back into you. Also watch out that you don't try
to just tap close range shots into an enemy. The shot needs 3 seconds
on the ground no matter what. If you're a few inches from the target,
you can just tap your shot and let it land right in front of you, then
walk the short distance between you and the enemy before exploding. But
if you're forced to shoot them at super close range, you must aim to put
the shot behind them and let it walk backwards into them.

Formula shooting:
If you use fixed power 30-parts-per-screen shooting, (aka cbchui-style
shooting, similar to armor 2.4) then frog will use power levels ranging
from 1.95 (half screen shots) to 2.1 (1 full screen). I haven't confirmed
if those numbers are perfect but they're close. If you use banpao-style
shooting (20 parts per screen) then you'll probably want to use
between 2.5 and 2.6 bars of power (untested).

Additional info:
Shot 1 goes counterclockwise & Shot 2 goes clockwise
Frog shots do not slow down when under certain mobiles (including Kal and most shield bots)


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ProfessorPap
post Jan 15 2007, 12:11 AM
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Take that, you silly ox.
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- frog's delay is now 770.

- shots don't get sticky against sate and mage (logical since their hitboxes are raised off the ground) and kalsi (not logical).

- damage was lowered even further in the recent update. 10% IIRC.
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n00bb00ts
post May 7 2007, 08:11 PM
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You're a towel.
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SS is also very useful A) when the enemy's in a hole, or even bowl-like indention, and B) when the enemy is sitting on a 'spire'.


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hellic
post May 7 2007, 08:32 PM
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Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
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QUOTE(n00bb00ts @ May 7 2007, 09:11 PM) *
SS is also very useful A) when the enemy's in a hole, or even bowl-like indention, and B) when the enemy is sitting on a 'spire'.
You mean getting ass-fucked?


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ProfessorPap
post May 8 2007, 01:35 AM
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Take that, you silly ox.
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SS is also very useful when the enemy's in a hole

how is it any better than a normal shot in that situation?
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n00bb00ts
post May 8 2007, 05:29 AM
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QUOTE(hellic @ May 7 2007, 09:32 PM) *

You mean getting ass-fucked?

Precisely.

QUOTE(ProfessorPap @ May 8 2007, 02:35 AM) *

SS is also very useful when the enemy's in a hole

how is it any better than a normal shot in that situation?

Because it has more land around the enemy, and as you all know frog's shot rolls much slower when right next to or inside an enemy. Like, instead of just normal land occupancy, they have land nearly surrounding them. So yea.


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mylord
post May 8 2007, 05:31 AM
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Battle Axe
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Only when frog first came out.


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ProfessorPap
post May 8 2007, 05:40 AM
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Take that, you silly ox.
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QUOTE(n00bb00ts @ May 8 2007, 07:29 AM) *

Because it has more land around the enemy, and as you all know frog's shot rolls much slower when right next to or inside an enemy. Like, instead of just normal land occupancy, they have land nearly surrounding them. So yea.

hmm. interesting point.

i guess the victim has a *little* more exposure time to the jelly when it's in a hole, but based on most holes created by frog, it's not going to be -that- much more exposure time. frog creates bowl-shaped holes, not tight, deep holes. so maybe 150% of normal damage at best.

but remember, thor has at least as much damage increase effect, and SS only rolls one way.

since the typical scenerio is to back-roll an enemy you've holed, SS wouldn't work in those situations. it would have to front-roll to the victim, which requires them to be either precisely the right deepness or for you to have very high angle.

it's an interesting point you make, but i don't see it as being all that useful.
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n00bb00ts
post May 8 2007, 05:44 AM
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Very true Pap. Frog cannot create it's own 'SS holes'. But nonetheless. =D


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