IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Guests, read this to find out why you can't see most topics any more.

2 Pages V  1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Nak 60 70 80 BJSL
Gabe
post Jan 13 2007, 06:53 PM
Post #1


Double Stone Hammer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 205
Joined: 11-January 07
Member No.: 32



IPB Image

IPB Image

IPB Image


--------------------
IPB Image
IPB Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ANBU
post Jan 13 2007, 08:39 PM
Post #2


What is love?Love is playing every game like it's your last
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 3,013
Joined: 11-January 07
From: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 42
GBNA:
Main: Turtle

Clan: The ACES of ACES






are all three for shot 1? i can't read that language.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Gabe
post Jan 13 2007, 08:51 PM
Post #3


Double Stone Hammer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 205
Joined: 11-January 07
Member No.: 32



Yes, all three of them are for shot 1. Any shot 2 formula you ever see - never ever ever ever use it because you will miss almost every shot you try. This is due to the formula requiring perfectly flat land to hit. Besides, shot 1 formulas are much easier to use and much more flexible. :)


--------------------
IPB Image
IPB Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
1nsanemofo
post Jan 13 2007, 11:13 PM
Post #4


I stand among the voiceless millions
Group Icon

Group: Moderator
Posts: 1,654
Joined: 12-January 07
Member No.: 97

IGN: Reptar - LoL
Guild: Curse Gaming.
GBC:
GBNA:
Main: Support / Mid

Clan: Da Hobo Crew





agreed, nak is the most feel based bot in the game, no exceptions...all you can do is formula the s1 and work out the s2 shot path to hit


--------------------
Hey I don't know if the billions will survive,
IPB Image
IPB Image
But I'll believe in God when 1 and 1 are 5.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
hellic
post Jan 14 2007, 04:26 PM
Post #5


Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2,974
Joined: 10-January 07
From: Near Chicago, IL
Member No.: 3

IGN: hellic (Steam)





QUOTE(1nsanemofo @ Jan 13 2007, 11:13 PM) *
agreed, nak is the most feel based bot in the game, no exceptions...all you can do is formula the s1 and work out the s2 shot path (with your aimbot) to hit
Fixed :D


--------------------
Nothing here to see.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Muggy
post Jan 14 2007, 05:08 PM
Post #6


A Little Chick
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 13-January 07
Member No.: 103

IGN: iMugshot
Guild: nS`T
Main: Trico



I agree with you guys 75%. I came across a shot 2 formula that worked surprising well on a map like marimo. And i found myself hitting over 85% of the time in head/back winds, but for the most part i think feel is best. When i have more time ill post it.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Gabe
post Jan 14 2007, 05:28 PM
Post #7


Double Stone Hammer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 205
Joined: 11-January 07
Member No.: 32



Yes but who plays Miramo. :X Random is the only way to go /gg


--------------------
IPB Image
IPB Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Muggy
post Jan 16 2007, 01:48 PM
Post #8


A Little Chick
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 13-January 07
Member No.: 103

IGN: iMugshot
Guild: nS`T
Main: Trico



well it can work on any map with very little experience.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Demon
post Jan 16 2007, 02:58 PM
Post #9


A Little Chick
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 16-January 07
Member No.: 144

IGN: DemQn
Guild: 4 stars
Main: boomer



Although I also formulate shot 1 only, some of the very best naks I've seen formulate shot 2 with good accuracy.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
CreeDo
post Jan 16 2007, 03:28 PM
Post #10


R U TEH GUY WHO HAS THAT SITE
Group Icon

Group: Retired Staff
Posts: 327
Joined: 11-January 07
Member No.: 30

IGN: CreeDo
Main: Turtle





yeah, the trick to using any shot 2 formula is pretty easy:

1- Understand that it only applies if the ground is flat.
2- Look at what the ground looks like where the shot will enter the land
3- If the land near the entry point is higher than you, the shot may come up short so add power, if it's lower, it may go long so reduce power.

That really does work. This thinking can be applied when you use an armor/turtle formula with nak shot 2, as long as you have a good sense of the underground curve.

Of course, if you have that sense, why not just use shot 1 formulas? I guess it's just a matter of preference but I find it's faster to measure to a known target than to an unknown patch of land near the target.


--------------------
IPB Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ANBU
post Jan 16 2007, 04:02 PM
Post #11


What is love?Love is playing every game like it's your last
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 3,013
Joined: 11-January 07
From: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 42
GBNA:
Main: Turtle

Clan: The ACES of ACES






when it comes to adjusting to wind, can the basic trico wind chart work?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
COoOoOoLCat
post Jan 16 2007, 07:16 PM
Post #12


Wooden Hammer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: 15-January 07
Member No.: 142

IGN: CooolCat
Guild: The best guild there is
Main: All



I dont find these charts that useful because you need to know alot of different angles with nak and you cant just use a bunch of fixed angles if your planning to use shot 2. sometimes you need a certain angle and power to hit and thats the only shot that will hit. If you know naks curve for example for tial wind I use from shot 1 landing spot instead of a shot 2 formula in high winds because it works better and for agianst wind i use shot 2 formula and you dont need to worry about landing spot as much. (Just some tips)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nighthawkspt
post Jan 16 2007, 08:02 PM
Post #13


Double Wooden Hammer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 146
Joined: 11-January 07
Member No.: 62
Main: nak

Clan: Elitist Bastards





I can formulate shot 2 pretty well


--------------------
IPB Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
CreeDo
post Jan 17 2007, 12:53 PM
Post #14


R U TEH GUY WHO HAS THAT SITE
Group Icon

Group: Retired Staff
Posts: 327
Joined: 11-January 07
Member No.: 30

IGN: CreeDo
Main: Turtle





trico windchart is special and is made to control airtime, so it's the last windchart I'd recommend for a nak (or any other bot).

A windchart for the angle/system you're using is best, like if you like angles near 70, a 70 bjsl chart is best. If you're using fixed power like banpao, the banpao charts are best.

In fact almost all the bots can use the same chart, only a few very light shots will be really different, and trico's will be different. Nak can safely use the 60/70/80 bjsl charts available for turtle/armor/mage.


--------------------
IPB Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ANBU
post Jan 17 2007, 03:31 PM
Post #15


What is love?Love is playing every game like it's your last
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 3,013
Joined: 11-January 07
From: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 42
GBNA:
Main: Turtle

Clan: The ACES of ACES






QUOTE(CreeDo @ Jan 17 2007, 01:53 PM) *

trico windchart is special and is made to control airtime, so it's the last windchart I'd recommend for a nak (or any other bot).

A windchart for the angle/system you're using is best, like if you like angles near 70, a 70 bjsl chart is best. If you're using fixed power like banpao, the banpao charts are best.

In fact almost all the bots can use the same chart, only a few very light shots will be really different, and trico's will be different. Nak can safely use the 60/70/80 bjsl charts available for turtle/armor/mage.

but if it controls the air time, wouldn't that make the shot enter the same way as if it was 0 wind? Thus it's underground arc won't be changed much :s or im overthinking this. but i'll try it out one day anyways : x
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
CreeDo
post Jan 17 2007, 03:48 PM
Post #16


R U TEH GUY WHO HAS THAT SITE
Group Icon

Group: Retired Staff
Posts: 327
Joined: 11-January 07
Member No.: 30

IGN: CreeDo
Main: Turtle





overthinking it... I see what you're getting at, sort of... if there's elevation with a trico shot, I lower angle and reduce power, or raise angle+power, and that 'fixes' it. But making nak's shots have the same airtime won't give them perfect ground entry because the wind affects the curve of the shot...

example: A 0 wind shot might move in a smooth 60 degree curve, enter perfectly flat ground about 40 pixels in front of the enemy, then come back up and hit them. Now imagine there's a hole 40 pixels in front of that enemy. My same shot might enter that hole, fly further underground, and come up too far behind them. So I could reduce power to fix that problem.

Now let's say the hole's still there, and wind is pointing 23 against nak. The entry point of the shot is completely changed, to hit correctly it now will enter the ground only 5 pixels in front of the enemy, drop almost straight down, come almost straight back up, and hit them. So the fact that there's a hole 40 pixels in front of that enemy doesn't matter anymore. So even if I can control the airtime to adjust for holes, I still need to imagine the entry of the shot and it'd be no use to try to control airtime.


--------------------
IPB Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ANBU
post Jan 17 2007, 03:56 PM
Post #17


What is love?Love is playing every game like it's your last
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 3,013
Joined: 11-January 07
From: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 42
GBNA:
Main: Turtle

Clan: The ACES of ACES






QUOTE(CreeDo @ Jan 17 2007, 04:48 PM) *

overthinking it... I see what you're getting at, sort of... if there's elevation with a trico shot, I lower angle and reduce power, or raise angle+power, and that 'fixes' it. But making nak's shots have the same airtime won't give them perfect ground entry because the wind affects the curve of the shot...

example: A 0 wind shot might move in a smooth 60 degree curve, enter perfectly flat ground about 40 pixels in front of the enemy, then come back up and hit them. Now imagine there's a hole 40 pixels in front of that enemy. My same shot might enter that hole, fly further underground, and come up too far behind them. So I could reduce power to fix that problem.

Now let's say the hole's still there, and wind is pointing 23 against nak. The entry point of the shot is completely changed, to hit correctly it now will enter the ground only 5 pixels in front of the enemy, drop almost straight down, come almost straight back up, and hit them. So the fact that there's a hole 40 pixels in front of that enemy doesn't matter anymore. So even if I can control the airtime to adjust for holes, I still need to imagine the entry of the shot and it'd be no use to try to control airtime.

true pinch.gif
I don't play much nak so I'll take your word on it :p
(lol in the last 6 months I played it 3 times.)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
COoOoOoLCat
post Jan 17 2007, 06:01 PM
Post #18


Wooden Hammer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: 15-January 07
Member No.: 142

IGN: CooolCat
Guild: The best guild there is
Main: All



QUOTE(CreeDo @ Jan 17 2007, 11:53 AM) *

trico windchart is special and is made to control airtime, so it's the last windchart I'd recommend for a nak (or any other bot).

A windchart for the angle/system you're using is best, like if you like angles near 70, a 70 bjsl chart is best. If you're using fixed power like banpao, the banpao charts are best.

In fact almost all the bots can use the same chart, only a few very light shots will be really different, and trico's will be different. Nak can safely use the 60/70/80 bjsl charts available for turtle/armor/mage.



Trico charts work for mage and and turtle forks
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
hellic
post Jan 17 2007, 09:52 PM
Post #19


Mess with the head, and you'll get the shaft!
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2,974
Joined: 10-January 07
From: Near Chicago, IL
Member No.: 3

IGN: hellic (Steam)





QUOTE(COoOoOoLCat @ Jan 17 2007, 06:01 PM) *



Trico charts work for mage and and turtle forks
How about the other way around? :P


--------------------
Nothing here to see.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Demon
post Jan 17 2007, 11:09 PM
Post #20


A Little Chick
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 16-January 07
Member No.: 144

IGN: DemQn
Guild: 4 stars
Main: boomer



I find that the trico charts, turtle fork charts, and mage fork charts aren't interchangeable. The reason turtle and mage forks don't adjust the same way is because mage is affected by wind more strongly than most other bots, including turtle; the angle and power factors will be a bit greater. The reason why turtle fork and trico charts don't work well is more complicated.

Although turtle and trico are affected by wind in the exact same way, that is to say, a blsj chart will work for both bots while applying their respective wind 0 powers, fixed airtime charts will be different. The nuance is in the physical shots. Trico shoots 3 cabbages that do not rotate at a constant velocity in all winds and distances. In downwind, a "perfect spin" lands more vertically than the shot would land in wind 0. This is because downwind works as a gravity modifier, "pulling" the shot downward. The opposite is true in upwinds, where the cabbages might look like they're about to underspin but hit in a tight cluster. Turtle fork trajectories, on the other hand, seem to be affected relatively little by wind. The sin and cosine streams of water move quickly through their vicissitudes, seemingly faster than trico's cabbages.

IPB Image

IPB Image

IPB Image

I chose exaggerated examples to make things clear.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th September 2019 - 03:37 AM

Mocha v1.0.3 Skin Designed by
Web Design by Bytech