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Author Topic: Graphical Aimchart!!! Tons of accuracy, on a piece of paper !!  (Read 3051 times)
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Yoyobuae
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« on: September 13, 2005, 05:43:37 PM »

Well, it is about time to redoo the thread explaining the use of the aimchart, since the 40+ reply thread in which I explained everything got erased ( hates whoever was responsible dry ).

What is the graphical aimchart?
It is a chart that relates the variables involved in aiming in GB (distance, velocity and acceleration), in one chart. It looks like this:

Simply put, the blue lines represent shooting power and angle, the red lines represent distance to target.

How does it works?
Normally it is not possible to simply plot distance, velocity (shooting power) and acceleration(gravity, wind) on a chart.  This happens cause each variable behaves diferent as time passes.

But when a player is aiming ingame, he/she doesnt think much about the amount of time the shot spends in the air (unless he/she is doing Turtle SS timebombs or Trico's 3 in 1s).  One interesting fact though, is that if time was fixed to some value, then aiming becomes easier.  What I did is develop a whole aiming method assuming "time" was some fixed value.  In other words, we would aim the shot so that at 3 seconds, for example, the shot is where the target is at, and hit.  happy

And that is what the chart does for you.  It tells you what power and angle to use so the shot is at a certain place at 3 seconds.  This would be a 3 second aimchart.  To ensure this happens, we follow 3 steps. Compensate for gravity, by adding a certain amount of upward speed (shooting power), opposite to gravity so that the effects of it are nullified, within the 3 seconds period.  Then add another amount of speed so that the shot travels the distance to the target, in 3 seconds.  And finally compensate for wind, adding an amount of speed opposite to it.

You dont need to understand any of the above facts to use the aimchart though  laugh

How do you get it?
You need to print out your aimchart.  Get the aimchart generator from the GB Simulator webpage (right-click link, then click "Save As..." and select a directory for it):


Now go to the folder where it was downloaded to, and run the chart_gen.exe.  Select the mobile (it doesnt work for boomer hook/back shots) you'll like the aimchart made for, and select a "Time constant".  The more time, the higher the angles and powers you'll need to use.  Something like 2.5 seconds should work fine for any mobile.  For Turtle's shot 2 you can safely use 2.7 seconds.  For Turtle's SS timebombs use 2.2 secs.

Click "Generate".  The program will now generate the chart, once it finished you should see a small preview on a window.  You can see,  on the window's title,  the folder where the image was saved.  Click on the image to open a Windows Explorer window displaying the image file that was created.

Now you need to print this image.  IF you have Windows XP this is quite easy, simply double click the image to launch Image Preview. Click on the "Print" icon on the bottom.  Click on "Next" until it asks you select the print size and the number of copies.  Select "8x10 in print" (or "20x25 cm print" which is the same thing).  Finally click on "Next" to start printing.

If you dont have Windows XP, then try to print it using a image editing or viewing program which lets you select an "Fit to page" option.  If you dont have one, then wait a few days until I add printing support to the chart generator program itself  happy.

Once you have your chart printed on a piece of paper, cut out the windscale (the little ruler like scale on the bottom left), but leaving a little white space, later on the post I explain why.  To make the windscale more easily manageable tape it to a plastic ruler.  I like to tape it under a transparent ruler so the windscale is visible thru the ruler, and the ruler itself doesnt block the chart.  You could also tape it on whatever you can find as long as you can move it around easily.

How do you use it?
Now comes the interesting part  biggrin. Aiming with the chart basically consist in 3 steps:
1) Measure (distance to target, wind direction/strenght).
2) Move your windscale on the chart (according to the measurements) and mark a point.
3) Read the shooting angle and power for that point.

Now, because this is a graphical aiming method, there is a direct relation between what you see in GB and its representation on the chart.  This is an advantage because you can estimate distances in GB and use that on the chart.  It is also kinda of a disadvantage cause any mistake you do on the chart would reflect back on the shot you perform on GB.

I'm sure that the chart is very accurate. How accurate can YOU be?  happy  Most likely not very accurate at start, but with a little time, you get better, and faster.  One thing is true though, while using the aimchart you will start to hate that 20 second timer  biggrin.  Specially if you do like me and rely COMPLETELY on the chart to aim for every single shot.

Enought talk now, I'm gonna explain step by step what you need to do to use the chart (with pics  biggrin):

Lets say we're using Turtle and a 2.7 second aimchart.  And we have the following situation:
PIC 1

First we need to measure where the target is exactly, and dont forget to do all your measurements from you're mobile's cannon. We start with the horizontal measurement (SD = screen distance, the distance from the left to the right edge of the your screen):
PIC 2
You need to memorize some landmarks (like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 SD) on the bottom interface so you can do measurements really quickly.

Then measure distance vertically.  We use the options menu as a ruler, you can quickly bring it up and hide it by pressing Esc key:
PIC 3
In this case the target is almost a 1/4 of 1/4 SD is DOWN. Be sure not to mix up and down, it happens to me once in a while.

Now we go to measure wind's angle:
PIC 4
In this case it's 68 degrees. How I know that? Because the highlighted part of the ring (the one the arrow points at) on the wind display fills entirely the section from 45 to 90 degrees:
Wind Ring
This means the angle is exactly midway between 45 and 90, which is 68.  The same applies when the highlighted part fills the 0 to 45 degrees section, in this case the angle is 22.  On the rest of the cases you need to estimate the angle, keeping in mind where 0, 22, 45, 68 and 90 degrees are.

Ok we now go to the aimchart. Grab the windscale and move it to where the 68 degrees line is and align the edge of it to the line:
PIC 5
Make sure you place the windscale in the proper direction, prefferably draw an arrow on a whitespace on the windscale to avoid confusion.

Now comes an slightly tricky part, you must move  the windscale, without rotating it.  You move it to where the 1/4 SD right is marked.
PIC 6
Distance is represented by the red grid. The crossing point of the black lines is zero distance. From here on each red line marks one extra 1/4 SD, distances lie between the red lines represent distances between one 1/4 SD and the next.
Notice how the first long line on the windscale points exactly at 1/4 SD horizontally along the black line.

We move the windscale down to just about the 1/4 of 1/4 SD vertically down is.
PIC 7

The line of the windscale we've been working so far represents wind 0.  In this case wind is 10 so we need to use the tenth line along the windscale:
PIC 8

We're almost done, all you need to do now is to read the values for shooting angle and power from the blue scale.
PIC 9
The straight blue lines represent angle, the vertical one represents 90 degrees (duh!!).  Each of the light blue lines represent 2 degrees divisions.  The dark blue lines represent 10 degrees divisions.
In this case we're at one dark blue line from 90 degress so 90-10=80.  And then one light blue line from that so 80-2=78. Simple right  biggrin  Its recommended that you label in pencil at least the dark blue lines, like 80, 70, 60,.....20, 10.  When the final point falls between the angle lines then your angle would be an odd number, like 79 in case the point was between the 78 light blue line and the 80 dark blue line.

The smallest dark blue circle represents 1 powerbar, the next 2 powerbars, then 3 and 4.  The light blue circles divide each powerbar in quarters.
In this case the point marked is barely beyond 2 powerbars.  So we set the marker on GB a tiny bit beyond 2 powerbars, we also set the angle to 78 degrees.

IF you can't get 78 degrees, then all of what you did is worthless  laugh.  So make sure you CAN get enought angle before using certain aimchart that will yield a high angle.  My recomendation is to use an aimchart with the lowest possible amount of air time so the angle needed is lower.  In fact print 2 or 3 charts and use them according to the situation.  Or use a mobile with a high angle range.

Some final facts about the chart generator.  The charts are scaled so that the windscale is always the same, no matter what mobile or time constant you pick, with the exception of Boomer which has the windscale size doubled.  This means that one windscale is good for any mobile. I programmed it like that so I can use the same windscale on all of my 30 Trico aimcharts (yup 30, so i can control de airtime  biggrin ), but you might find this useful for random mobile games too.
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GujuSol
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2005, 08:07:06 PM »

After about an 1/2 hour of failure, I finally figured it out.

Thanks  kiwi04
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2005, 09:34:41 PM »

Wow, looks hot.  I'll have to try this out... Btw, you and yuenqi should get together on making formulas; he's also really into formulas/discovering things about the internal structure of gunbound physics, etc.
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Yoyobuae
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2005, 09:34:54 AM »

Wow, looks hot. I'll have to try this out... Btw, you and yuenqi should get together on making formulas; he's also really into formulas/discovering things about the internal structure of gunbound physics, etc.
Maybe.  We could share some info. I'm really interested on the new mobiles physics since I dont have the equations for them.

Here's a screenshot mezzaninex took and overlaid the aimchart with proper scaling so the chart's distances match GB distance. (thanks mezz)
Screenshot
One of the large pink dots marks the angle/power used on the shot on the screenshot (88 deg, 3.9 power) and the other one marks the correct angle/power (86 deg, 3.8 power).

Hope this helps to further visualize how the chart works.
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mezzaninex
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2005, 09:37:00 PM »

Hope some of you guys take the time to figure it out, this can be a fun way to play!
I use it sometimes... but other times it drives me too crazy, like when I don't have enough time.
Play 4v4s! heh

Thank again yoyo  smile, this thing is crazy and great.
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2005, 11:53:22 PM »

Hope some of you guys take the time to figure it out, this can be a fun way to play!
I use it sometimes... but other times it drives me too crazy, like when I don't have enough time.
Play 4v4s! heh

Thank again yoyo smile, this thing is crazy and great.
Yup play 4v4, always.  biggrin

Just now I was playing Trico with the charts.  I lost like 1/3 of my turns  laugh  Switching between charts is very time consuming. laugh  And before that I need to figure ot the correct airtime needed for perfect rotation.  laugh  Yet 3 in 1s land nicely once you get everything right.  That one time I got to do a 3 in 1 backshot was really cool.  biggrin

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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2005, 11:57:45 PM »

Hope some of you guys take the time to figure it out, this can be a fun way to play!
I use it sometimes... but other times it drives me too crazy, like when I don't have enough time.
Play 4v4s! heh

Thank again yoyo smile, this thing is crazy and great.
Yup play 4v4, always.  biggrin

Just now I was playing Trico with the charts.  I lost like 1/3 of my turns  laugh  Switching between charts is very time consuming. laugh  And before that I need to figure ot the correct airtime needed for perfect rotation.  laugh  Yet 3 in 1s land nicely once you get everything right.  That one time I got to do a 3 in 1 backshot was really cool.  biggrin



Mugg failed horribly with using your chart for Trico  dry
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005, 01:24:54 AM »

The insanity over some Korean Worms  game, I love it! This may sound like sarcasm, but it isn't. I'm impressed.

I'd never be able to come up with anything like that /swt
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Yoyobuae
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2005, 11:35:24 AM »

Mugg failed horribly with using your chart for Trico  dry
It's a really crazy thing to use the chart for Trico.  I dont recommend it to anyone.  biggrin

But if you still wanna try, here's an explanation.

First you need to print lots of charts, all of them from 1.3 secs to 3.3 secs at least.

When aiming you need to do one extra step before you start to aim, calculate the airtime.  For each extra tenth of a sec (0.1 sec)  airtime you give shot 2, it will rotate 16 degrees.

For left side shooting, at 0.5 sec the shot is completely horizontal for the first time. To the right, it's at 1.0 sec.  From there each extra 1.1 secs add one spin.
Left:
1 Spin    2 Spin    3 Spin
0.5 sec   1.6 sec   2.7 sec


Right:
1 Spin    2 Spin    3 Spin
1.0 sec   2.1 sec   3.2 sec


But those times will make your shot land horizontally, which is not useful. So you need to add a few tenths of a sec to this time to make your shot land at the appropiate rotation. Usually 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 or 0.5 extra time is required (or more if you attempt a backshot biggrin).

But what's the appropiate rotation?  The one that matches the angle of your shot's path as it lands. There's no quick way to calculate that angle, so you need to guess it  biggrin.  In general the shot lands at the same angle as you shoot IF wind is 0 and your target is at the same height.  For higher targets the landing angle is slightly lower, for lower targets that angle is slightly higher. 

What's worst is that wind also affects the landing angle.  Foward-upward winds lower the landing angle, and backward-downward winds raise the landing angle.  Forward-downward or backward-upward winds dont affect it.

And there's one more thing that affects shot 2 rotation, the slope Trico is in.  Higher slopes require that you give extra airtime to the shot to compensate. For that you need to check what angle the top of the true angle (or untrue angle) is:
True  Untrue  Time added
40    50      0        Flat Ground
56    66      0.1      Tiny slope
72    82      0.2      Medium slope
88    98      0.3      Big slope


When all that is done, then you select the chart with the correct airtime and START aiming.  All of the above calculations make the rather lenghty aimchart aiming even more time consuming.

You would need to do all of the above calculations mentally (just a few easy additions actually) very quickly, if you expect to do something with Trico with aimcharts.

I'll say it again, I dont recommend it to anyone.  Use some other mobile, for most of the mobiles one or two aimcharts are enought for almost every possible situation.
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2005, 01:21:02 PM »

Some advice, dont use the chart for trico, Just stick to coventional Forms. Yoyobuae, you are a very strange little man.
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mezzaninex
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2005, 08:04:57 PM »

I am glad to see that you realize trico's shot's landing angle changes with wind but....
KNOWING THAT SHOULD HAVE STOPPED YOU XD

you are certainly crazy laugh
good luck though.
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2005, 09:52:45 PM »

Hope some of you guys take the time to figure it out, this can be a fun way to play!
I use it sometimes... but other times it drives me too crazy, like when I don't have enough time.
Play 4v4s! heh

Thank again yoyo smile, this thing is crazy and great.
Yup play 4v4, always.  biggrin

Just now I was playing Trico with the charts.  I lost like 1/3 of my turns  laugh  Switching between charts is very time consuming. laugh  And before that I need to figure ot the correct airtime needed for perfect rotation.  laugh  Yet 3 in 1s land nicely once you get everything right.  That one time I got to do a 3 in 1 backshot was really cool.  biggrin



Mugg failed horribly with using your chart for Trico  dry


No not this chart lol.  His trico simulator.  And i didnt fail horribly i just didnt adjust for wind. And besides it wasnt a flat shot it still lined up.


Also my numbers are pretty accurate in 0 wind.  I just need to test more with someone.

Edit:did didnt
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2005, 05:06:45 AM »

 : kiwi02 kiwi04 kiwi03 kiwi07 kiwi08 kiwi18 kiwiface00 kiwi11 kiwi12 kiwi14 kiwi15 kiwi17 kiwiwink01 kiwi22 kiwi19 kiwi20 kiwi05 kiwi01 kiwi09

thats all i can say about ur chart..nice ^^
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2005, 06:33:05 AM »

I didn't understand it completely kiwi01 anyway Yoyobuae are planing to make simulator for other bots ?  kiwi20

Thanks ...
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2005, 06:09:32 PM »

if yoyo's aimcharts are a "fixed timing" method of shooting, why would it take more work to make them work for trico? cant you find the fixed timing needed for one, two, and three spins, and the use those 3 aimcharts?

what am I missing?
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2005, 09:52:16 PM »

The timing is different for a shot 2 with 1 spin -> at zero wind then it is at say, ten wind against

This is because the shot needs to be at a certain rotational angle when it starts hitting.
When there is no wind, it has to come down at a diagonal which takes it say 2 seconds to do.
With 10 wind, the shot comes down vertically.
If it were at the 2 second spin, it would land spread (think of a diagonal line of them falling straight down).

You need MORE air time to make them be lined up vertically when they hit (wind against)... then you would when they have to be diagonal (no wind).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2005, 09:53:54 PM by mezzaninex » Logged


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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2005, 07:55:33 PM »

I'm having some problems with the aimchart.

1. It only goes to 1.75 SD, how to calculate 2+ and 3+? I don't wanna try to extend the lines in photoshop I'd be sure to get them wrong.

2. If I use it correctly, using your 2.2 section guideline for turtle timebomb, I measured a 1 SD shot as a test. I seem to get angle 50 (well it looks like 49.9) with 2.45 bars of power. The power is about right but the angle is too high, what I have as perfect is 48, 2.39 ...

Is it because I measure from the center of the body and you measure from the cannon? And if that's the case, isn't 2.45 still wrong? I measured it in photoshop so I'm positive it's 245 pixels (after I scaled the chart to 72 pixel res. to match my monitor)... it should be like 2.35, but the 1 screen mark is very close to 2.5 ...

Is 2.2 maybe over a hair for airtime? I tried 2.1 and it seems incorrect also. Do we need 2.15 or is that crazy?
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2005, 08:03:21 PM »

Yeah, it does appear to show 2.42 bars... but you have to measure from the tip of the cannon. Which leaves you at about 2.3... ish

2.3+ seems decent to me. Angle 47, 2.3 is 1 screen measure for me (before chart).
The chart shows it to be about 48-49 2.35 I guess..... I guess our measurements were off.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 08:05:43 PM by mezzaninex » Logged


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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2005, 08:21:03 PM »

Maybe how I define "tip if the cannon" is wrong. Are we talking turtle's water cannon, the blue thing, or the end of the red angle indicator line?

Yoyo, if I could make a small request, is there any way to correct this chart for the tiny difference in the way we measure distance? Could you make a version that measures from the center of the mobile to the center of the enemy's mobile, so that 1 screen = exactly 800 pixels? I've always liked that because then distance is a nice round number like 800.

Failing that, how far would I have to move the red line to make it "my" 1 screen in photoshop? Assuming 72 pixel resolution?

Or could you add a "distance measurement" option in the generator? Also a resolution thing would be nice because I really want to use this on screen rather than in print, although that's a very minor thing and could be done only if you are bored.

I think the bottom time is that the airtime of 2.2 is incorrect. Any proper halfscreen measurement, whether measured from the tip of the cannon or a hair further back, should come to almost exactly 2.0, or a tiny hair less, but both the 2.1 and 2.2 charts give a hair over 2.0. What I really would like is the option to make 2.05 second. Maybe the SS has exactly 2 seconds of airtime, but it hits their body at the 2 second mark so a 2.05 chart would be perfect.
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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2005, 08:41:01 PM »

the chart is kinda limited though. the shots it gives you are all parabolas. i mean, try a .2 second chart and it will give you powers that make the shot last for .2 seconds... but still flies in a parabola. i'm pretty sure full power angle 90 goes alot further in .2 seconds than the chart makes it out to.

lol if you want a shot to hit something next to you in .1 seconds, you would think it will tell you to use a low angle shot, a shotgun, rather than some weird angle 80 stuff. but the chart won't pick that up. it will give you the weird angle 80 crap instead.

possibly the same thing happens to the turtle SS beyond a certain distance. you'll just have to feel-shot beyond that distance, or pretend the chart goes on and base the power and angle change on its pattern.

 psmily knowing the chart has its limits shows partly why i think kalsiddon melee shots/opening/timebomb SS can't be aimbotted.
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Taking a break from GB and playing FlyFF with my brother.

also, I've started taking Physics, so some of the formula-craps i've been seeing might make sense now? XD
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2005, 12:46:18 AM »

the chart is kinda limited though. the shots it gives you are all parabolas. i mean, try a .2 second chart and it will give you powers that make the shot last for .2 seconds... but still flies in a parabola. i'm pretty sure full power angle 90 goes alot further in .2 seconds than the chart makes it out to.

lol if you want a shot to hit something next to you in .1 seconds, you would think it will tell you to use a low angle shot, a shotgun, rather than some weird angle 80 stuff. but the chart won't pick that up. it will give you the weird angle 80 crap instead.

possibly the same thing happens to the turtle SS beyond a certain distance. you'll just have to feel-shot beyond that distance, or pretend the chart goes on and base the power and angle change on its pattern.

 psmily knowing the chart has its limits shows partly why i think kalsiddon melee shots/opening/timebomb SS can't be aimbotted.

The only reason it shows higher angles is because that is where the focus of the chart is.
There is only 1 possible shot if you choose both the airtime and the distance.
If you choose something silly like .1, you will be off most of the chart range, it doesn't compensate its focus to show you possible shots, it shows you where you are at and also the 0 power origin. The only thing that changes with airtime/bot is the grid of boxes showing distance, and the wind ruler.

I don't know what you mean by it "giving you parabolas". every shot in gunbound is a parabola, just altered by wind... even low angles.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2005, 12:47:58 AM by mezzaninex » Logged


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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2005, 01:45:15 PM »

i mean i think the shots that it maps are all shots that go up then down

but not shots that only go up but dont come down.

that's what i meant by parabola **
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2005, 03:07:39 PM »

If you had someone like 1/2 above you and you choose the correct airtime (a low one), it should hit from below without coming down.
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« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2005, 12:33:34 PM »

If you had someone like 1/2 above you and you choose the correct airtime (a low one), it should hit from below without coming down.
It is posible to do it like that, except you'll need to choose the correct airtime every single shot.  Which means you'll need to pick one amongst many charts, like I do with Trico  biggrin.

Bottom line:  The chart was not intended for shotgunning, so It will become one big mess if you try using it for that.  I could adapt it for SGing though, even make it so the spot at which you aim is exactly at the arc's top  biggrin.  But Tenki probably wont like that right?  biggrin

I dont have the equation parameters for Kalsiddon anyway, I would have to measure them manually, a looong, boring process which I dont wanna do right now.  biggrin

Maybe how I define "tip if the cannon" is wrong. Are we talking turtle's water cannon, the blue thing, or the end of the red angle indicator line?
The tip of the cannon is the tip of Turtle's water cannon, or more like exactly the spot where the shot originates, which seems to be the the water cannon tip.

Yoyo, if I could make a small request, is there any way to correct this chart for the tiny difference in the way we measure distance? Could you make a version that measures from the center of the mobile to the center of the enemy's mobile, so that 1 screen = exactly 800 pixels? I've always liked that because then distance is a nice round number like 800.
If thats is done, then the left and right side of the chart wont be simetric, which would affect wind compensation.  The distance diference would also vary depending on the terrain's slope on which you're in.  It would just make the chart have unwanted unaccuracies.

I think the bottom time is that the airtime of 2.2 is incorrect. Any proper halfscreen measurement, whether measured from the tip of the cannon or a hair further back, should come to almost exactly 2.0, or a tiny hair less, but both the 2.1 and 2.2 charts give a hair over 2.0. What I really would like is the option to make 2.05 second. Maybe the SS has exactly 2 seconds of airtime, but it hits their body at the 2 second mark so a 2.05 chart would be perfect.
The chart I found best for timebombs was 2.15 sec. I measured the SS to pop at 2.05 secs, with a 2.05 chart you'll need to aim exactly at where you want the SS to pop.  I picked the 2.15 chart so I could aim directly at the target mobile.

I'll make the "time constant" adjustable in steps of 0.05 in the generator. You can try which works best yourself.

I'll also add the resolution option too.  But how are you gonna use it on the screen?  Alt tabbing?!  blink
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« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2005, 03:14:38 PM »

isn't it possbile to make it run with gunbound at the same time? but make the white become transparent?
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Tenki
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« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2005, 04:20:31 PM »

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It is posible to do it like that, except you'll need to choose the correct airtime every single shot.  Which means you'll need to pick one amongst many charts, like I do with Trico  .

Bottom line:  The chart was not intended for shotgunning, so It will become one big mess if you try using it for that.  I could adapt it for SGing though, even make it so the spot at which you aim is exactly at the arc's top  .  But Tenki probably wont like that right? 

lol its ok. i found out from a certain friend there was an aimbot which included kalsiddon and it: 1) showed where the shot opens and 2) showed where the tracer lands. but, it doesnt map out where each individual missiles land, so an aimbot kalsiddon player can't do trickshots or my 'trademark' kalsiddon shot without learning from me or messing around and actually turning 'pro' with it first (laol what kinda tard would want to be a kalsiddon aimbotterpro). so i can do shots no aimbot can do. so .. ha. winner.

but out of curiosity, how would you end up adjusting it to show that? your current chart is on fixed time. kal opening is neither fixed time nor power, nor distance for that matter. u'd practically need an aimbot to do that XD

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But how are you gonna use it on the screen?  Alt tabbing?! 

actually when i used your chart i did alt tab cause i'm too.. lazy haha. i get an estimation of my shot by looking at ur chart XD. i eyeballed it for the wind changes too lol. using 2 fingers to measure distances = winner.

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If you had someone like 1/2 above you and you choose the correct airtime (a low one), it should hit from below without coming down.

i'm talking about practical shots though.. lol given the correct airtime, almost any in-screen shot can be mapped so that, say, the apex of the shot is on the person. it could be 1 second in, or 2 seconds in, but it's wayy too impractical to use the current yoyochart generator to do that, because you'd practically have to use almost every single airtime chart.
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Taking a break from GB and playing FlyFF with my brother.

also, I've started taking Physics, so some of the formula-craps i've been seeing might make sense now? XD
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2005, 12:28:17 PM »

but out of curiosity, how would you end up adjusting it to show that? your current chart is on fixed time. kal opening is neither fixed time nor power, nor distance for that matter. u'd practically need an aimbot to do that XD
Ok, the current aimchart cancels out gravity by adding an upward speed, this speed makes the shot climb up to the apex and the fall down to the spot from it was shot in a fixed period of time.

Likewise I could double the upward speed, so at the fixed time the shot is at the top of the arc instead. The only setback of this is that the gravity will have an effect, so the distance grid would need to be offset down to compensate.  And finally the scale of the chart would need to be properly adjusted. Thats it  happy
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creedo
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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2005, 04:23:41 PM »

I'm looking forward to the new version with .05 time increments...

 I get what you're saying about the parabolas not being correct... my shot leaves from above the mobile and exits at the center of the target... I guess the most correct way to fix that is a 2.15 second chart.

re: how I'm going to use it on my screen: There's no need to use it in-game at all, everything can be precalculated. The only thing I'd use it in-game for is wind adjustment. I'd just alt+tab to photoshop, where the wind 'ruler' is on a separate layer, rotate it to the desired wind angle, then slide it around to the appropriate section on my 2.15 second chart.

Of course, that's just a theory. What I'll REALLY do, if I have the patience and energy:
1. I'll double check my 1.5 and 2 SD timebomb numbers
2. Rotate the wind ruler to each of the 9 major wind directions, and calculate how much angle/power change there is for... I dunno, every 5 wind in those directions, which will get me five numbers per major wind factor... I'd do this step for 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1.0 screens.
3. Starting at 1/4 SD I'd write down how much angle/power changed for each of the 9 factors and then average those 5 together to get 1 angle adjustment factor and 1 power adjustment factor.
4. After repeating steps 2 and 3 for all 9 factors and 4 distances I'll have 4 angle+power adjustment windcharts which can be used with existing 0 wind timebomb info to make a sharp timebomb inside 1 SD.
5. If I did all of this, and somehow enjoyed it and wasn't sick of it, I'd come up with some simplified height compensation rule and maybe 1.5 and 2SD wind adjustments. Rofl.

This sounds insane but once the work is done, it will be in a form that can be memorized by a dedicated player, and then the player could use it anywhere without extra tools. That's what I'd like to be able to do.

PS: Could you make an aimchart that is just as accurate and easy to use if the constant is power instead of time? Or angle instead of power? I find this is pretty easy/intuitive once you understand it, and I'm wondering if the visuals/wind adjustment for a fixed angle/power chart would be just as easy.
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mezzaninex
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2005, 04:31:49 PM »

It needs to be constant airtime for the wind corrections to work. With more airtime, the wind effects more, so fixed power with variable airtime would render the wind ruler useless. =/
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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2005, 10:32:57 AM »

PS: Could you make an aimchart that is just as accurate and easy to use if the constant is power instead of time? Or angle instead of power? I find this is pretty easy/intuitive once you understand it, and I'm wondering if the visuals/wind adjustment for a fixed angle/power chart would be just as easy.
The main reason the chart is fixed time is so it eliminates the parabolic nature from the calculations.  If time is not fixed then the effects of wind cannot be separated from the effect of gravity or shot power, etc.

In engineneering terms, the system becomes non-linear. In other words the chart would consist of weird curves instead of lines, and the windruler would need to have a different shape on each shot.  I doubt such aimchart would be easy, useful or posible at all  biggrin

That's why I sometimes find it hard to believe other formulas are precise.  It's true that something like "1 angle = x distance" works within certain limits.  But if you throw wind into the mix, then the situation becomes even more grim.  I keep struggling myself to be the most precise I can be with the chart, yet I still miss by a hair sometimes.  Misjudging the wind's angle by say, 10 degrees, can completely throw off my shot.

All I can say its, good luck creedo  smile
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